Recently, it’s become very clear that when people watch my Real Craps games videos, viewers think that I am endorsing or advocating the style of play that is in the video. Some of those play styles were proposed by readers and viewers.

That alarms me a bit because some of the bets you see me do in the videos are not optimal. If you make some of those bets, you will end up losing a lot of money. For example, recently, I’ve been betting some hardways as a way to bring some diversity to the bets. Just because you see me betting $1 on the hardways, does not mean that I would endorse betting $10, $25, or anything else on the hardways. A few people have also commented that they’re glad that I see the light and are now encouraging me to press on the hit.

I would never bet the hardways, at all, if I was playing for the sole purpose of trying to maximize my win probability. The house edge is way too high on the hardways and will absolutely devastate your bankroll in short order. Sure, you might get lucky on a few nights, but a vast majority of the time, if you bet the hardways for any significant amount of money, you will go home a big loser.

I also find bonus bets fun, and I’ll throw a $1 here and there on them; however, it doesn’t mean that I think those bonus bets are good bets.

RoadGambler has $1 on the 6 and 8 Repeater bets. House edge on the 6 and 8 repeater bet are around 20%. That’s a bankroll destroyer, but for $1, that’s a cheap form of entertainment.

Also, a few people have made some angry comments on the play at the D videos, asking me why I didn’t let the 6 and 8 travel.

Well, that was a friend who was playing.

I finished answering an email on this very issue, and I will repeat my advice here: when playing the Don’t Pass or Don’t Come (DP/DC), always let the bet travel. Do NOT decline the bet after the point has rolled. If the point is 6 or 8, the darkside has the advantage because there are 6 ways to win and only 5 ways to lose.

If you cannot stomach the point of 6 or 8, you are better off playing the lightside, aka the rightside. Just stick to the Pass and Come bets with odds and forget the darkside.

ROADGAMBLER’S PREFERRED CRAPS BETS

My go-to and preferred style of play is simple:

Minimum pass line, maximum odds, and then come bet after odds have been maxed. On a 20x game, I’ll go to three or four come bets. At 100x, I’ll stick to one pass line and one come bet.

I call this the RoadGambler style of play. It’s the style of play that will yield the lowest house edge. With comps and free play, and some aggressive comp hunting, you can gamble for practically free.

Remember, when you watch my videos, they exist mostly for the entertainment of the viewer.

If you have any questions about my play in any of the videos, feel free to ask.

 

Posted in: Casino, Craps, Gambling

20 thoughts on “Clarification on RoadGambler’s Playing Styles”

  • On the 20x game, do you just play the come bets and NOT the pass line? If so, any reason why? Really enjoy your videos and blogs

    • RoadGambler says:

      I do play the pass line. I mean, why not? In the end, the pass line and the come bet are exactly the same thing.

      If I had to put my thinking cap on, the only reason why I might not play the pass line is to keep my Average Daily Theoretical (ADT) loss down.

      Let’s say I play pass line and two come + odds. Doing rough math at 100 rolls an hour, each pass or come bet has an expected loss of 7 cents each. At 100 rolls per hour, you can expect to make about 28 of each bet, which means you would have an expected hourly loss of about $2 an hour per bet, or $6 for all three bets.

      If you eliminate the pass line and bet only the come, that effectively cuts your hourly expected loss to $4 an hour total.

      Over the course of a day, assuming you play 10 hour per day, that $40 expected loss versus $60 expected loss.

      Ian asked about the best place to play 20x odds. I like Sam’s Town and Main Street Station because at both places, I can get the pit to write me a discretionary comp for a high end dinner or room comp (which I usually don’t need) that’s way more than $40, effectively putting me in the positive. For ADT computation, they’re not supposed to consider your odds, but they sort of do consider your odds for discretionary comps. Sort of.

      If you’re going to take this cutting approach, it’s better for appearance reasons to make one pass line and one come bet, rather than no pass line and two come. Effectively and mathematically, both approaches are the same, but it looks better to the pit (who will write the discretionary comp) if you have a pass iine. The reason is because it’s easier to see your pass line (located right in front of you) versus seeing a come bet that can take a little bit of observational effort to pick out in the box number area. That’s my theory and it’s served me well.

    • RoadGambler says:

      I like Sam’s Town or Main Street Station. Both are $5 minimum and 20x.

      Both are pretty good and generous with their comps.

      There is a box at Sam’s Town who can get a bit surly if you miss the back wall more than once. Older bald headed guy. Try it with him in the box and you’ll see exactly what I mean.

  • Great advice….

    I’m waiting for the Road Gambler to officially advise having all come bet odds working on the come out rolls…

    • The video of him at Santa Anna..he had 2 come bets and pass line….I think he was rolling by himself at a reckless speed….

  • RG,
    When playing your style, do you ever reach a situation where you feel a roller has made you enough money and either not put up another come bet after a point has been made? Or do you always have 2-3 points working regardless of how many points a shooter has hit for you?

    Thx

    • RoadGambler says:

      Henry, it all depends on how I feel, my mood, how long I’ve been playing, and whether I’ve met or come close to my goal.

      I don’t really have a uniform answer.

      One thing I always do is make sure that I don’t go on tilt. Sometimes I do go on tilt. If I feel like I’m about to go on tilt, for whatever reason, I’ll take a little walk.

      If I feel like I still want to play, then yea, I’ll continue with my 2-3 point scheme. Otherwise, I’ll pull and walk.

  • Love the blog! Do have a question. I’m a low,low roller. Usually I will do a pass line with 2x odds and a come with 2x odds for $30 at risk per hand. I’ve been thinking maybe it’s better to just have a pass line with 5x odds instead. I’ve done the place bet with two numbers at 3 units each but I just feel like I’m missing out on when a roller has a few 7 or 11 s on come out.

    • RoadGambler says:

      Brian,

      If your bankroll budget allows for 5x, then you should go to 5x. However, if your budget calls for 2x, then stick with 2x.

      On a $5 table with 100x odds, imagine three players. Player A betting $5+$500 (100x), player B $5+$25 (5x), and player C $5+$10 (2x)…all three players will have the exact same expected loss amount. If your budget is originally for 2x, then changing to 5x can have effects on volatility, among other things.

      The important thing about odds isn’t that you should bet more or less on them, rather, you should not divert bets anywhere else but the odds, until they’re maxed. But even then, there are factors to consider.

      If you simply increase your odds bet to 5x from 2x, without increasing your bankroll, you will increase your volatility and increase your risk of ruin. You will be playing with fewer units.

      There is still a lot of confusion around odds. While they appear to be clear cut, high odds play can lead to additional questions and concerns.

      I’ll address these issues in greater detail in a future article. I’m going to write this article without getting too heavy into the math, which can be difficult, considering that it’s a math question.

      • On a $5 table with 100x odds, imagine three players. Player A betting $5+$500 (100x), player B $5+$25 (5x), and player C $5+$10 (2x)…all three players will have the exact same expected loss amount. If your budget is originally for 2x, then changing to 5x can have effects on volatility, among other things.

        Are you sure..? If all three players played at the same table, they would certainly have different loss expectations….let’s say that they lose 10 pass line bets…player A is down 5050, player B is down 300 and player C is only down 150….the house edge of 1.41% is equally taken from the flat bet….

        • Never mind…if the table gets hot player A will surely surpass player C due to the true odds being paid out…..I guess it depends…on a winning session, it is better to have more odds..and on a losing session, less odds would be favorable….

          • If you want to get really theoretical and into some high level analysis, large losses on high odds aren’t a bad thing. That’s not to say that losing feels good or that you should go out and lose a boatload of money. Losing sure as hell is not desirable.

            Having said that, do you know that casinos do NOT make money from payers losing? No, losing is free, as gaming mathematicians say. Contrary to what 99.99% of the gaming public thinks, casinos make money from people winning, not from people losing. When a player wins, one way or another, the house keep a certain percentage of the win. That portion of the win accounts for the profit from the game.

            All that assumes that the game is truly random and unpredictable, or at least not vulnerable.

            If you had a magic crystal ball that predicted when the player would win, or if there was a weakness to the game that allowed the player to beat it, then the above wouldn’t be relevant. But in a truly random game that is not predictable, winning and losing, from a theoretical perspective, works the opposite of how most people think it works.

        • Their loss theoretical expectations would be exactly the same. Keyword being ‘expectation’.

          What would be different are their expected losses as a proportion of their bankroll.

          And yes, after a while, their actual losses will vary, too.

  • This is the subject that I am most interested in. How and how much a person bets when he/she plays craps. As a person that only gets to play craps once or twice a year and with a small bankroll I see myself learning more and changing how I play the game. For me knowing what my bankroll is and how many sessions I am going to play is the first thing I want to know. I would say I am a conservative player and like the little wins or little loses with the bankroll I have. I certainly see the advantage of a 20X or 100X odds table only if your bankroll can handle it. Just don’t do what I use to do. When I would want to raise my bets I would raise both the pass line bet and the odds bet in stead of just the odds. Rookie move!!!

  • Nick Boretz says:

    What is your accumulation of money..not an exact amount over many sessions, but generally..regarding using the basic craps game of PL w/odds and come bet VS the PL + odds and placing the 6 and 8? Better, the same, or worse on one side or the other?

  • Good information Max and I look forward to your thoughts on money management. I do have a question at one of my favorite casinos my comped rooms are harder to get in advance. My wife and me too are wondering if it is because I’m winning on all my stays there. Your thoughts?
    Cheers
    Ron

    • RoadGambler says:

      Ron,

      For the most part, casinos do not care if you win. There are some rare exceptions, but usually they care more about your theoretical, aka the ADT (average daily theoretical).

      If you’re winning regularly, then most likely you are playing a low ADT style, which may explain your low low comp level.

      It also depends on other factors. Are you asking your host? Do you have a host? Is the host aggressive at getting you comps? Are you aggressive?

      Some casinos give their hosts more leeway than others.

      My advice is that if your host doesn’t I’ve you what you want, then you have to ask yourself how aggressive do you want to be to pursue comps? TBH, I think rooms should always be comped for regular gamblers. But casinos will always take the path of least resistance. If you don’t press, then they won’t give you that extra comp.

      Be aggressive. If the host won’t give you rooms on demand, then tell them you want a new host and tell the old host why you’re firing them.

      My other advice is that if the casino won’t dole out the comps, even after you ask for a new host, then fire the casino and find a new casino. Like in real life, if you don’t like what one merchant if offering, find a new business who will give you a better deal.

      Good luck!

  • Thanks Boss. I have been thinking about firing my host. I just like the casino, dealers, hotel and the dice game at this casino so much I didn’t want to burn any bridges. I do play a low ADT pass line with odds and come bets with odds or often pass line with odds and place the six and eight and the only reason I place the 6 and 8 is they comp my full bet bet then as they don’t count the odds for comps.
    Cheers
    Ron
    P.S.
    I’m staying at a different casino next month.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

You may use these HTML tags and attributes:

<a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <s> <strike> <strong>