In the Mirage craps game videos, part 1 and 2 of the Real Craps Game series, some of the players near RoadGambler were making improper bets. These were not illegal bets; rather, their bets were not in the proper increments for their given bets.

Place betting $10 on the 6 and $10 on the 8 is an improper bet.

THE IMPROPER BET

These bets are improper bets, but they’re not illegal or impermissible bets. The casino will allow players to make improper bets all day long, as improper betting increases the amount won by the casino. The penalty for these improper bets is that the casino will short pay a portion of the bet, thus increasing the house advantage on the entire bet.

If a player place bets $10 on the 6 or 8, and the winning place bet number rolls, the payoff is $11 per number rolled. The breakdown for the payoff is such: $7 payoff for the first $6 wager, then $4 payoff for the remaining $4. In other words, it’s as if the player made a $6 place bet, which has a low 1.5% house edge, and then combined it with a $4 bet on the Big 6 or Big 8 bet, which has a much higher 9.09% house edge.

The player would have been much better off adding $2 to each of his 6 and 8 place bets. In that case, each $12 place bet would pay $14. Think of it this way: the extra $2 would pay an additional $3. The player is getting a 3-2 payoff for a 6-5 proposition on his extra $2, which is more than the reverse of what happens to the $4 parcel in the short pay scenario.

The improper bet on place 6 and 8 is the most common improper bet in craps.

Note that for purposes of completeness and clarification for those who are learning the game of craps, the player is not obligated to bet both the 6 and 8, but may bet only one number and not the other number. However, since the vast majority of players place bet both numbers when the point is not 6 or 8, I will refer to the pair of bets as ‘place bet 6 and 8′.

THE DEALER DILEMMA 

Most of the time, when a player makes an improper bet on the place 6 and 8, the dealer will offer some sage advice and tell the player that they should toss in the additional amount to make their bets proper. If you watch some of my RoadGambler videos, you will regularly see dealers telling players to bet the additional amount.

The advice offered by the dealer to make the bets proper is wise and the correct, and shows that a dealer really cares about the player.

However, there is a dilemma to offering the advice: if the player loses, the player can sometimes blame the dealer for the additional wager lost. For this reason, some dealers choose not to correct the player, as was the case in the Mirage videos, Part1 and 2.

Players can sometimes have selective memory. Also, regardless if the advice was correct and wise ex ante, most humans are results oriented. I have seen players become upset because the end result was a loss. Players tend to notice, and catalog in their memory, the dealer scooping up their chips when the 7 rolls. But when a winner rolls, many players will simply just collect their additional winnings without so much as thanking the dealer for recommending the proper play.

The new player – it’s almost exclusively new players that make this improper bet – cannot really be faulted for blaming the dealer. They’re still learning the game, after all. It’s much easier to notice the additional $2 being scooped away than it is to comprehend that a 3-2 payout is an advantage on a 6-5 proposition.

The other issue is that when dealers tell a player the additional amount needed to make the bet proper, they often phase it as a demand, ‘$2 more dollars’.  Even if the comment is not a demand, the player perceives the statement as a demand. This gives the player the impression that the dealer is simply enforcing a rule, rather than helping the player. The result is a lack of gratitude and tips flowing back to the dealer.

For the reason I stated above, I don’t really blame dealers for remaining quiet on the matter.

CONCLUSION

Instead of saying, ‘two more dollars’, dealers and players would both be in a better situation if the dealer said, ‘you would be better off betting $2 more dollars’.  Such a statement would go a long way towards the player giving credit to the dealer for helping the player. I understand the advice stated in the advisory form would solicit a follow-up (as to why the extra $2 is beneficial).  Such extra time and attention may be difficult to allocate on a busy table; however, I’ve seen some great craps dealers give an explanation that was friendly, courteous, downright awesome, yet succinct. Yes, it’s extra work for the dealer, but dealing is a customer service business that relies on customer goodwill for tips.

At the end of the day, even if the player is initially unhappy about losing the extra $2, eventually, the player will inevitably win a few bets and see the extra money coming their way.

That advisory approach would lead to a better experience at the table for the players and more tips for the dealers.

TL;DR

On place bet 6 and 8, bet increments of $6; i.e., $6, $12, $18, $24, etc.

Most of the time, dealers will correct the player, if the player is making an improper, but legal, bet. However, it’s quite understandable why dealers sometimes do not correct players.

Heck, I’m hesitant to correct players, too. But in the case of the Mirage game, I felt bad for the guys. So when the player next to me tried to make a $10 place bet at 7:06 in the video, I spoke up.

$10 place bet on the 8…

Now the player has the proper bet…

I was hoping he would tell his friend to add $2 more to his 6 and 8, or that his friend heard me.  In Part 2, the player’s friend continued place betting $10 on the 6 and 8, while the player I advised made proper bets. My suspicion is that the proper betting player did not understand, but was just following along with my advice.

Proper bet indicated by the green arrows; while improper bets indicated by red arrows.

Sometimes it takes a while for new players to learn this wonderful game. That’s totally okay. It’s a cheap lesson to learn.

Posted in: Casino, Craps, Gambling

0 thoughts on “A Rock and A Hard Place: Dealers Correcting Players on Improper Bets

  • A pal of mine insisted on always betting a $16 six and eight. “Why?” I’d ask. And he’d always reply that he liked to press direct to $30 on the first hit and he didn’t want to add any additional money to his payoff to do a power press. “But why?” I’d ask. He was being paid even money on that odd $4 he wagered. Why not just make it an $18 six and eight and press to $30 and get $9 change back? Why? Because he didn’t want to risk the extra $4 split between the two numbers up front. Sigh. So I suggested he take that $8 he was spreading between the six and eight and play an $18 six and $14 on the eight. At least ONE of his numbers would be correct. Better still, just bet $18 on one and $12 on the other. Or perhaps he could just pick ONE number to bet on and bet $30 on it right out the starting gate. But no. $16 six and eight. The dealers looked at him like he was crazy every time. Every dealer asked him for another $2 or tried to give him $4 change to make it a correct bet. Every time it brought the game to a stand-still. Some people are just that way.

    • RoadGambler says:

      I would have liked to see his betting pattern and the reaction on the dealer’s face. Sounds interesting, to say the least.

  • John Koryto says:

    In NJ we do not accept any improper bets because state law mandates that payouts can never be less then what the posted odds are. So in the case of a $10 place bet on the 6 or 8 the true payout would be $11.66 so we would have to pay it $12 to be in compliance. Therefore no improper bets. That being said it does occasionally happen – most often in the case of odd odds behind the 5 or 9 on the pass line. In that case the casino has to suck it up and pay the extra $.50.

  • Yes, I’ve seen odd bets like $26 6 and 8. To get to $30 right away. I told the better he was essentially parking two dollars with the casino..which, if he sevened out, they would gladly take. AT least just bet $24, get paid $28 and throw the dealer 2 bucks. The payoff goes back to a $24 bet that is paid off $28..plus his $2.00 for which he gets nada. If you think I changed his mind, I have a leaning tower of Pizza for sale at a bargain. I like the idea that you have to place bets correctly. Speeds up the game.

  • Ha RG thanks for the videos I enjoy watching them all .would like to see some moor long playing times it gives you a chance to get into the game and see how the table changes .Tanks for turning me onto the Vagas craps players I hope to learn from it as well as your great sit .Had a great week last week on cruse up 2700 + 111 from Atlantis in 5 rolls walked away. I have also watched newer players make the same bets on the 6 8 hopefully someone will help and point this out so they can learn how to better their odds. The game always needs new player so we can do something we enjoy,with out new players and younger ones the game will be harder to find. Have a great day keep up the great work maybe run into you in L V in August.

    • RoadGambler says:

      Based on our analytics, both on our past YouTube channel and on our new method of hosting videos, it seems that 13-15 minute videos performed the best.

      Like you, I like long videos, which is why originally, we put out the longer videos as a test. But the vast majority of viewers disagree with us.

      Our data shows us that the vast majority of viewers watch for only about 5 minutes, on average, and tune back in at a later date. People watch videos in pieces.

      The videos with the worst analytics were actually the longer videos.

      According to data on YouTube, the best videos perform at 10 minutes or less. I’m not so sure that a 10 minutes craps video would be all that satisfying, so we will not be making 10 minute videos.

      We will keep up the work. We are here to stay.

      Thanks for your words of encouragement.

      Sincerely,

      RG

  • Thank you again for a fantastic video. I have learned a lot watching your videos! Please keep it up and God bless and good luck!
    Jim

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